Military Experiences
 

Ted Jenning’s posting on November 25:
How often I recall NROTC and destroyer duty - almost always positive memories, whether marching with "Victory at Sea" blaring from Hitchcock or steaming east from Spain to Lebanon in '58 - at top speed as soon as Dick Mann had lit off the 3rd and 4th boilers.

Which of us on the Listserv did what kind of duty? Has it affected our reaction to the various "peace at any price" movements over the years? Do we look back on that service as "wasted time"? How about the courses we might have taken if it weren't for the Military Science requirements?

Maybe my nostalgia is colored by the consideration that I probably wouldn't have met Sally if I hadn't had to spend a particular weekend in Boston submitting to a special "can you really hear anything?" physical.

Any vivid memories out there?        Ted J

Bob Adelizzi responded:
In response to Ted's comments regarding the military, the four years I spent in the Marine Corps were well worth the time. I made many lifetime friends, including Bill Cosby who was a 19 year old Navy Corpsman assigned as our  trainer on the Quantico Marine Corps football team I played for. Fortunately, I got assigned to San Diego where I met my wife, Tommi.  In San Diego, I had the opportunity to command a company of drill instructors at the Marine Corps recruit training command at a time when recruit training and the drill instructors were under intense scrutiny after the unfortunate "McKean incident" at Perris Island.  What a terrific group of dedicated men.  It was absolutely amazing to see them transform a "herd" of  frightened and often dysfunctional kids into a sharp, proud and confident fighting unit in 12 short weeks.  Tough love does work.  I successfully defended so many drill instructors accused of maltreatment and other related offenses that I began to think I was Perry Mason and eventually became a lawyer.  Not bad for four years of your life--serve your country in a proud and distinguished organization, meet many terrific people, including the woman to share your life, learn many valuable life lessons and find a career path.  Much to be thankful for.     Bob

From John Lange:
Ted: What a delightful surprise.  I was steaming to Lebanon at the same time in 1958 as ASW officer on the destroyer USS Ingraham (DD694).  What ship were you on?

As a regular viewer at the fraternity house of the Victory At Sea television series, I hummed the theme all the way through OCS in Newport June-Nov 1957 and was not disappointed by my 3 years on the Ingraham.  It was great fun; I do not regret it and -- while sorry to have been hauled away by the Kennedy Administration in the middle of graduate school to serve again on the destroyer John Hood -- I even liked being at sea then. 

Did this change my politics?  No.  Did I join the Vietnam war protest movement? Yes, when I was a VP at City Bank in 1968, I was convinced that protest was necessary.     John

From Dick Duncan:
Looking back, I think I wasn’t really ready to make it sol through the world when I graduated from Dartmouth.  But I was, when I got out of the Navy three years later.

I had no experience comparable to being Officer of the Deck of a destroyer in bad weather, changing station and reorienting the screen in a carrier task force in the Sixth Fleet at full speed in the wee hours of the morning, then going straight to fueling stations for an  hour of being drenched by green water breaking over the 01 level.  One or two of those and I recall actually inspecting myself for gray hair at 22.  Once in one of those maneuvers at dawn the ship ahead and to the right of us jammed its rudder at full turn in heavy seas.  I turned right with full rudder to avoid her and watched the captain go flying from his chair and across the bridge, while all the breakfast dishes crashed to the deck in the galley below.  The CO forgave me; the cooks did not.

We put a Soviet sub to the bottom off Norway and tried to bang on its hull with a grappling hook.  We patrolled just a few hundred yards off Haiti for a week to protect PapaDoc Duvalier from a Castro invasion.  We failed – Fidel’s guys got ashore elsewhere - I learned several years later when I was covering Haiti for TIME – but his Ton-ton mahouts butchered them on the spot.       Dick Duncan

From Randy Aires;
Ted, Dick and Bob: Thanks for those memories of our destroyers plowing through those North Atlantic storms in November 1957.  I think there was more seasickness than flu on our ship, but what did we know (or care, for that matter, when you are that sick).  I well remember the Firth of Clyde and expect to get back to that area next June.  I'll look for your castle.  Ted, our ship was in Southampton, England and I was in London during that weekend when Sputnik took the world by surprise.  I'll never forget it, particularly the reaction of the Brits.  I bought a Harris tweed sports coat that weekend which still hangs in my closet.  The fit isn't quite what it used to be, but I can't give it up.  It's my Sputnik coat.

I think quite a few of our NROTC classmates wound up on destroyers.  My ship, the HUGH PURVIS (DD 709), was in the same squadron with Dick Duncan's destroyer for at least part of the time you served on that ship, Dick.  By the way, I'm sure that that ship that made you take a hard right turn was not ours.  I have a lot of great memories from my time in the Navy, and I agree that the leadership of men and responsibility aboard the ship increased my maturity level greatly.

In early August 1958 our ship was in Bremerhaven, Germany when we received word that our ship was assigned to proceed to Lebanon (remember the summer 1958 Lebanon crisis?)  That news affected me in two ways.  First, my leave to go to Brussels for the World's Fair for a few days was cancelled.  Second, my wedding date of August 12 in Carlisle, PA was in jeopardy.  The ship was due back in the U. S. on August 8 before the Lebanon crisis came along.  When I left the U. S. in early June right after Ginny graduated from Skidmore, we agreed that the wedding would be a small family affair.  But during the two months on the high seas and in European ports the wedding had turned into a large church affair with 400 invited guests.  Panic set in on both sides of the Atlantic.  Fortunately, just as we were preparing to head for Lebanon, the U.S. Navy decided that our ship, with midshipmen aboard, was not going to be part of that mission.  Our ship got back to the U.S. (Boston) a day late but three days before the wedding and Ginny met me in Boston.  I had blood tests taken at the U.S. Army Hospital in Bremen.  Without them I would have missed the PA deadline and the wedding would have been delayed.  Close call.     Randy

Dick Duncan Responded:
Good stuff, Randy. Seems we all remember that mad dash to participate in the "invasion" of Lebanon. In the eighties I had a chance to talk to some Lebanese about that operation, and they recalled with mixed mirth and respect the sight of combat-ready marines pounding up out of the surf, then wending their way through girls in Bikinis to the head of the beach.

I'm pretty sure it was the Dickson that had the rudder locked left. They got it centered pretty quickly by hand, but not before doing something close to a 360.     Dick

From Bob Copeland:
For the record, our move into Lebanon was called "Operation Blue Bat".  I can remember at least one occasion in which we sailed, with little change in course, in a circle for close to thirty days (out of sight of land).  We stopped once so that everyone who wanted could jump over the side for swim call, but that was about all other than replenishment and refueling activities.  When we left the Med I had to get rid of all our various classified publications that no other ship wanted (we were due to go out of commission) and spent several unpleasant days at sea burning the stuff.  Probably much of it shouldn't have been classified, though there were a few interesting things such as the pubs on using atomic shells in our 8" guns.  Probably the only ones the Navy ever developed, at least operationally.  Not that we ever had any of the shells on board.

Oh, one other occasion strikes my memory.  In the fall of 1957 or that winter the Asiatic flu threatened the fleet so they decided to give us all shots.  None of this business of refusing to take shots in those days.   At any rate, more than 2/3rds of the crew was knocked out of action for several days.  We kept sailing, but it is lucky that we didn't have to do anything very serious.

Dick Duncan again:
Bob, I remember that flu epidemic of the fall of 1957. It struck us as we headed across the North Atlantic in November for Operation Strikeback, one of those maxi exercises the admirals designed to prove the Navy could strike the Soviets with atomic-capable bombers as well as the Air Force could, meanwhile blocking the Iceland-Faroes gap so the enemy subs couldn't get through, etc. etc.

There was a constant succession of storms. Aircraft were swept off carrier elevators. A couple of sailors were swept from their ships and lost.  Then an atomic sub - I think it was the Nautilus - humiliated  all of us destroyer types, signalling a whole new era in sea warfare at the same time, by catching the fleet from behind, something no sub was supposed to do, and steaming through the open part of the screen, merrily firing off yellow flares to simulate sinking ships.    Dick

From Dick Bugbee
Dick Duncan referred to a terrific storm in the fall of 1957.  USS Manley (DD940), the destroyer I joined in July 58 (after Thayer School), was caught in that storm, nearly ran out fuel, and was hit by a huge rogue wave in the dead of night.  The wave crushed in the port side of the main deck superstructure, ripping the galley stove from the deck.  The stove crushed and killed two sailors.  The Officer of the Deck was flipped from the bridge onto the awning above it.  Luckily he was not swept overboard.  Manley limped back to Norfolk, was repaired and then went on a Misdshipman cruise in Summer 58 where I joined it in Kiel, Germany. I am truly enjoying hearing service remembrances for our classmates.  Keep them coming.  Regards, Dick

Ted Jennings adds
I was on the (Sadie) Hawkins - "Daily News," I recall - DDR873. We had the height-finder radar instead of torpedo tubes, and steamed (usually) out in front of those big circular formations doing early-warning work. Flatterers called us the vanguard; we thought of ourselves as fringe players.

That huge operation off Norway - I couldn't be commissioned until the end of summer '57, which meant Sally and I couldn't marry until August. Unfortunately, that meant I had to go to sea three days after our wedding (remember that occasion, in Connecticut, Herb?). But the skipper gave me leave for a honeymoon after we got back. Our officer complement was at about 50% - we stood watch and watch most of the time.

My favorite incident involved our exec/ navigator. One night he shot nine stars, so when he was through he'd be really sure where we were. Lo, he got three very nice, but separate, fixes. They weren't close together. After plotting all three on the big chart of the whole North Atlantic, he covered all three with the palm of his hand, picked the central spot equidistant from all of them, muttered the phrase (first time I'd heard it) "Close enough for government work," and reported the compromise as our position.

It wouldn't have mattered much - we were, after all, supposed to be off by ourselves watching for bogies coming from the North Pole or Murmansk or wherever - except that the Wisconsin was trying to find us to refuel us. Between not knowing where we were, and trying to pretend that we did know, and to make connections via encrypted messages with their inevitable delays, there were a few moments of wondering what we'd do if we ran out of bunker C.    Ted

Bruce Sloan Tells His Story:
I left Dartmouth after our sophomore year and was drafted a few months later. I had expected to get drafted into the Army, but did not know until I showed up at the induction center that the Navy was drafting that month. But I was glad to get into the Navy and hoped that I would see some of the world.

Alas! For most of that time I was a seaman apprentice in the gunnery office on the aircraft carrier Valley Forge (CVS 45) in Norfolk, VA, which was being outfitted. We then spent a few on short (2-3 days) shakedown cruises. A few weeks before we were scheduled for a Med cruise I was transferred to a guided missile destroyer, the USS Gyatt (DDG 712) which was being retrofitted in the Boston Naval Shipyard to carry missiles.

My time on the Gyatt was primarily spent on mess cooking, which meant washing dishes 12 hours a day. When renovations were complete, we spent several months in Newport, RI on picket duty, cruising the Atlantic for a week and then in port for a week. A few weeks before the Gyatt was scheduled to go on a Med cruise I received an early discharge because my two years would run out in the middle of the cruise. (I was willing to extend my enlistment for a few months to complete the Med cruise, but at that time the Navy was cutting back on personnel and most draftees were getting out early.)

So I returned to Dartmouth, majored in geology, finished my degree, and lived happily ever after.      Bruce

Bob Marchant talks about his ‘white hat experiences:
 To Bruce Sloan: My apologies! Prior to your note, I only knew of one other white hat in our class, Quig Porter. The situation becomes somewhat confusing because Quig Porter and I were originally 55's who later attached ourselves to the class of '57. From what I gather from your mail you were a '57 who graduated at a later date but kept the '57 class. I don't blame you. It was a great class and that is why Quig and I took the mantle of the class of '57.

I don't know whether I was typical or not, but I had a tremendous respect for the young ensigns with whom I served. I was aboard the USS Hornet as a flight deck photographer. The job was sort of a breeze and gave me a great deal of time to ponder my fate and the mysteries of life. My strongest recollection, probably, was of the tremendous responsibilities that were heaped on those young guys. You have to realize that those were guys who were just a couple of years older than I. Guys like Humpie, or Sparrow who I knew as my fraternity brothers at Dartmouth were now officers of the deck of a major aircraft carrier. I can relate to many of your stories, if only because I knew that I wasn't ready for that kind of responsibility. I saw that you all were handling it somehow. Let me take a minute to tell a short story by way of amplification.

Most of us who had grown up to expect to go to a college like Dartmouth and had actually had gotten there were used to a certain respect for what we had accomplished at that young age. Once you put on that little white hat you were branded as something else. Who you were before and what you had accomplished was entirely wiped out. The world, your officers, your petty officers, all branded you as an air-headed screw up. This was my impression of how we were looked at during that time at least. Example: I was stationed at the Naval Air Training Facility at Norman Oklahoma on the campus of the University of Oklahoma. The Captain gave us a stern lecture on the kind of representatives we were of the US Navy. We went out with the worst kind of women. We spent all our liberty time in dives. Our money went not to anything that would enrich our lives but to crap games cheap gifts for loose women. That was only a day or two after I was not allowed into a public symphony concert at the University of Oklahoma because of my uniform. No coed would even talk to me over a cup of coffee (perhaps that was more personal than a view of the uniform). It was about that time that I said if that is what the world thinks of us with the white hats then I am free to be one of them and not give it another thought. After that I had a great time in the Navy. I figured Norfolk was Norfolk and Hanover was Hanover and it worked for me. There are those who would say that I on my return to Dartmouth I carried my Norfolk days over to my Hanover days. Any recollections confirming that are total "misremembrances."

Just as you DD ensigns learned responsibility in the Navy, I learned humility. I learned that my fellow man, while maybe not as advantaged as I, was a pretty good guy and a lot of fun.                  Bob Marchant USNR

Bob Copeland comments:
Thanks for sharing some of your memories of the Navy.  Now that I reflect on it a little, life was not all skittles and beer.  The Navy was trying for the first time to overcome its shares of some of society's problems and not doing a very good job.

Discrimination against blacks was blatant and bad.  I did finally meet (and room with) a black officer, but they were very scarce and not well treated by the predominantly southern senior officers.  He told me once that they had deliberately not assigned him to a destroyer because there would no place to hide him there.  He could be swept under a rug on a large cruiser.  They tried to do that to him, but he was so much better than some other junior officers that he became well respected.  Black enlisted men had the best chance of promotion as mess stewards.  The only Asiatics I saw were Filipino mess stewards.

The Navy had a simple solution for anyone even suspected of homosexual tendencies.  Out of the navy as fast as possible with as bad a blight on his record as could be given.  One young seaman who worked with me (he had risen to radioman 2nd in three years) was the best we had.  He got drunk one night and made a pass at another sailor and was sent back to the US before morning.  What a waste! Of course, we had no women on board as they now do.

All of this has nothing to do with the fact that the Navy was both very good for me and to me personally.  It was struggling with society's ills and, in a sense, prepared me somewhat for the conflicts and moral compromises I would be faced with wherever I worked.      Bob C

Bob Shirley relates his medical fun!
Mates-I think that I had the most fun in the USN.  Dean Syvertsen enrolled all of us at DMS in the Ensign 1995 plan so that we could be deferred until we finished specialty training before going active with the service.  Tom Hall was not acceptable to the Navy because he had suffered 22 fractures (if you ever watched him play rugby you could tell why).  So he went into the Air Force.

After being deferred each year from 1958 on to finish residency, I finally went active duty in 1966.  23 ob-gyns were activated that year (22 draftees and one reservist), and 22 went to Nam and one was assigned to the USNaval Hospital Annapolis.  Thank the Lord for Dean Syvertsen!
-One day of sea duty, with the Gold Star mothers as we sailed into the Chesapeake Bay to lay wreaths on the water.
-Chief Petty Officer's wife who came in with a battleship gray diaphragm which she had been using for 14 years.  When asked why she didn't get a new one sooner, she said that he was away half the time on sea duty.
-Playing first base and pitching for the hospital softball team, bowling for the hospital on a team with 4 captains,  playing golf at the Naval Academy GC from 6 to 8 a.m. each morning.
-Pigging-out on dirt-cheap clams and oysters often, scooping hard-shelled crabs off the pilings of the Chesapeake Bay
-Delivering one baby a day with Ward Gypsum D'55 and Jo Johnson, a Texas U. draftee who went to school on a basketball scholarship and really beefed up the hospital bb team.
-Being told to forget my plans to study the effects of radio energy on spermatogensis because it was a court-martial offense to masturbate and therefore I couldn't get any specimens.  I had found a number of radiomen's wives unable to get pregnant, who had none, bad, or poor sperm in their cervix when they should have been active and perky.
-Hauling our kids out of the local county school system when the principal told me that Tom was getting " a right smart lot of readin'" in the school curriculum and putting them  in the Naval Academy Primary School.
-Profoundly sad messages about the Corpsmen whom we had trained catching it in Nam a few weeks after they left us.
-Prolonged 24-hour alert as a member of the hospital "Evacuation Team" ready to help the Israelis in the 1967 War if they needed us.  They never took us off alert. All it meant to me was to get shot up with every antigen known to epidemiology in preparation for going to the desert.

They liked us and we liked them.  They offered us a next billet in Irkutsk, Japan if I signed on to stay in the Navy.  Alas, we quit and came back to the Hub of the Universe in plenty of time to watch the Big Dig.  Wah Hoo Wah...Meatball (Dr. Bob Shirley)

Herb Hanson remembers:
1958 - July. Escorting Marines to Beirut so they could go ashore through the blankets of bikini-clad lovelies/seeing a white-hat sentry killed while on forecastle watch on our companion destroyer at anchor in the Beirut harbor.

1962 - October. Receiving and decrypting the message that put our missile submarine in a position to launch our nuclear missiles within 15 minutes. We remained in this posture longer than I like to remember. This was made even more difficult because we really had no idea what was going on re the Cuban crisis. Were our families all right, etc.?

1963 - April. Receiving the message, as watch officer, operating at deep depth, that the Thresher had gone down. I, as many, had many personal friends on that ship.

1963 - November. Coming off Polaris patrol to learn of JFK's assassination. Most bizarre - staying at the Officer's Club in Prestwick, Scotland, and watching the TV coverage in one room, while half the crowd was dancing and drinking in another part of the facility.

1968 - May. Getting the initial news of the Scorpion loss in the Azores. I became quite involved with the aftermath, while finishing my tour as the Engineering and Materiel Officer for Sublant in New London.

And all these recollections remind me that I, and many classmates and others, became involved in these activities to protect our rights to live in what continues to be the greatest country in the world. Sure, we have our challenges and our differences. Nevertheless, this wonderful forum that Adam has created and maintains is evidence aplenty, that while people can differ in philosophy, the exercise of actually thinking and discussing about what has been going on has proven to be very salutary.   Herb

Randy Patterson --his record 38 years in the Navy!
I, along with others, have enjoyed the remembrances of many of our classmates' military experiences. I agree that the lack of widespread opportunities for some sort of military or public service does a disservice to our youth today.

 I owe a lot to the Navy and its "Holloway Scholar" program which essentially paid my way through Dartmouth. I suppose I begrudged the Naval Science courses and their restrictions on other electives at the time, but this was offset some by the freedom allowed by the $50 check that arrived every month, and the exotic places we were privileged to visit each summer - Little Creek, Va, Corpus Christi, TX, Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, and the like. I am pretty sure I would never have made college visits to Europe as a product of a conservative Midwestern family, were it not for the Midshipmen Cruises.

 I was one of a handful of our class that stayed in the Navy beyond the obligated two or four years (Herb Hansen, Jim Mayer, Jack Stouffer, and a few others), and the monthly retirement check that now comes every month is another reminder that I  made a good choice. The certainty of this retirement security enabled me to pursue other avenues for their interest if not their reward after I left full-time active service, and the retirement letter from SECNAV, acknowledging 38 years of Naval Service is a source of pride.

At graduation, I was pointed to being a Navy pilot, but changes in the Navy's pipeline requirements meant that I was only in Pensacola for a few weeks before shipping off to a troop ship in the Pacific. Never even got IN an airplane. However, a year or so on an Amphibious Force ship (some of the time with Randy Nord) convinced me that this was not the way to go, and I pointed toward the Submarines.

Just a couple of the cutting edge adventures and assignments: A tour in a diesel submarine out of Pearl Harbor, and the schools for inertial navigation and digital computers when the best of these were still at least refrigerator-sized led me to a new Polaris submarine, which I rode down the ways at launching and have outlived by several years. We patrolled out of Scotland, thankfully submerged under often horrible weather, and evaded what we could hear of Soviet trawlers and submarines in the North Sea and Med for four operational patrols.   We searched for two weeks for the remains of the "Thresher", using our (then) advanced sonars. Kaye thought she was a widow when someone stopped in the store and asked if she knew a sub  "making test dives" had been lost - JEFFERSON was also at sea on test dives that day, and it was several hours before the Navy announced the name of the lost ship.

I was an assistant intelligence and operations watch officer at Pearl Harbor when we recognized the sinking of the Soviet "Golf" sub that later became the object of the "Glomar Explorer" retrieval, and I wrote many patrol report endorsements for the activities described in the book "Blind Man's Bluff".  As I was never anointed for a nuclear command by Admiral Rickover (something about the lack of a good education, I guess), diesel boats which I could command were being decommissioned at a good rate and the path to commanding an "Electronics Research" ship was cut off by the "Pueblo" incident, I decided to
seek my fortunes elsewhere. Besides, my Dad had asked, "When are you going to get a REAL job?" at some point while I juggled family and Navy priorities

Surely I never expected to have such a story to tell when we all nervously gathered in Blunt for our first NROTC meeting in the fall of '53.   Randy Patterson

Dick Duncan Responds:
Randy, that's a great recital of a full career. Funny how our lives intersect at certain memory points.  I think of that Golf sub in the Pacific, and the fact that a TIME reporter in Washington got a  leak on the story, including the fact that the sub broke in half at the surface as it was  being lifted, sending all the Soviet codebooks back to the bottom.

Shortly after I got a call from a senior person at the CIA asking that we not print the story. I consulted my bosses, then replied that we intended to print. Bill Colby went over my head, properly, to the Editor in Chief, who decided to acquiesce and not print the story, because Colby said it was essential to national security that the Soviets not know what happened to their codebooks.

We didn't print the story. But the LA Times did five days later. Shows how much good it is to withhold a story.     Dick

Herb Roskind shares his WWII Navy Pilot heroes:
Howard Hendrickson of Edgartown, MA won the Navy Cross in WWII having sunk a Japanese battleship in the Sea of Japan in his TBM Avenger dive-bombing through a hail of bullets. Howard helped found the MVY EAA chapter in Martha's Vineyard three years ago. He is the Secretary and sometime lecturer. There is a reconstructed TBM at Quonset Naval Base, RI with his name on it for static display. He is a living hero and is very modest about it.

Howie Ross of Chicago is still an active pilot and CFII at the age of 82. He flew a Hellcat for 231 hours of combat in the pacific. Three of his carriers were lost while he was in the air. Some of his planes came back with so many holes they were thrown overboard. Howie collects WW II war birds and shares them freely with interested friends. He let me fly his Navy T 28 and T34. The T34 was just a supper Bonanza, but his T28 was a real 11,000 lbs 1180 HP thrill. Maybe this year we will fly his P51.

The Navy changed these men's lives and they have in turned shared and changed other lives. Howie's great lesson is the answer to what is important? While flying over Arizona last year he told me the secret.     TODAY IS IMPORTANT!    Herb

Randy Nord joins in:
I am enjoying this topic.  Like so many others I look back on my Navy years as a learning and maturing experience, in my case probably equal to Dartmouth and more significant than graduate school.

Learned from this exchange that JD Lange and I were at Newport OCS at the same time after graduation from Dartmouth, but instead of going to a destroyer in the Atlantic as so many others did, I spent 3 years in the amphibious Navy in the Pacific(APA-195).  As Randy Patterson noted we were shipmates for a time.

Spent a good part of our last trip to WestPac as part of the so called Amphibious Ready Group (3-4 ships fully loaded with marines and equipment) steaming in circles in the South China Sea as Laos and Vietnam were heating up.  Little did we know what was to come.    Randy

Dave Cook comments:
As our wives will surely attest, "sea stories" of our military experiences will never die.  In my circle, wives simply hold up a hand with extended fingers to advise the teller how many times he has told that tale at the latest gathering.  Doesn't stop us though.

Randy Patterson's closing comment in his 11/28/00 career summary talked about the freshmen who gathered nervously in Blunt for our first NROTC meeting in the fall of '53.  The building then was known as Crosby Hall, Blunt being the new name assigned when the building was converted to alumni activities.   A visit to Blunt today gives precious little clue of what went on during the days of Captain Tonseth and Naval Science, when our classes were inspired by World War II exploits, pre-GPS navigation and obsolete guns of yore.  My destroyer, the Purdy, DD734, likewise obsolete, was scrapped within ten years of my departure in 1960.  The memories, on the other hand, will never fade, become out-dated or lose their association, in my mind, with NROTC at Dartmouth.         Dave Cook

Al Rollins on NROTC courses:
The NROTC courses proved to be some of the most interesting and useful courses I took at Dartmouth.  I loved naval history having steeped myself in all things related to the sea from an early age. Navigation to me was the essence of "going to sea" with celestial navigation being the ultimate challenge.  Sadly, it's no longer even taught.  It proved to be very useful background material when I took surveying in my graduate forestry program.  Naval engineering has provided me with a great background for many of things involved in physical plant management and construction and the same can be said of the leadership course in many other contexts as well.

Active duty as navigator on the Vesuvius (AE-15) for two WESTPAC cruises was a challenge, but I can't really think of anything else in my life equal to making a landfall on Marcus Island after two weeks of solo steaming using only celestial navigation.  On my first WESTPAC cruise we were on station for 30 days during the Quemoy-Matsu incident.

I put in another 30 years in the Reserves and had great experiences.  Retirement was in 1989 just in time to miss being recalled for Desert Storm.  My Military Sealift Command unit was deployed to Naples for Desert Storm.   Al

Bob Mowbray’s edited military career (was two pages of memories)
I believe that I may have mentioned here earlier that I consider the three most influential experiences in my life to have been my 4 years at Dartmouth, 3 years on active duty in the U.S. Marine Corps, and 3 years as a Peace Corps Volunteer in Ecuador.

During the 15 months I spent in Okinawa I served as a Forward Observer, Platoon Commander, and Battery Executive officer. While a Battery Executive Officer, I was a member of the first Marine Battalion Landing Team afloat in the Pacific (similar to the Med cruise for those assigned to LeJeune) and had the privilege of serving under a Battery Commander who had come up as an enlisted man in World War II and Korea.  Captain Oliver pretty much turned the responsibility for training and readiness of the battery over to me. During our cruise about the western Pacific we visited Hong Kong, Taiwan, Japan, and eventually spent about a month in the Philippines (Manilla, and Subic Bay) because it was closer to Laos (the Indo-China trouble spot in those days before Viet Nam) than Okinawa.

As for so many of us it was a great learning, growing, and self discovery experience.  And like Al Rollins even some of the academic training came in useful at Yale Forestry School - meteorology at flight school, the use of an aiming circle (similar to a surveyor's transit) to line up the guns of an artillery battery, and map reading are a few examples.       Bob

Fred Kumm asks about service in the Intelligence
I would like to know if any classmates spent their service years working in the intelligence business.  I was the first field agent for Field Operations Intelligence in Europe. FOI was a new spin off of CIC in the Army Intelligence (oxymoron).  My undercover work took me from Vienna to Geneva to Copenhagen.  My work was classified for thirty years.   Fred

Bob Mowbray responded that Neil Sween (a backstroker on the swim team) went to Army Intelligence School  at Fort Holabird in Baltimore.

Dick Canton on Intelligence activity:
I also attended Ft Holabird and left the CIC for FOI (Field Operations Intelligence) and shipped to Japan. A number of classmates at Holabird went uncover throughout the Far East. I was assigned to an overt operation in Okinawa(U.S. Army Liaison School). It was our cover for working with Far East personnel training to be double agents.

I think there were about 7 classmates there at the time...Fred Serby...Bob Sproul..I was the only non officer of the 57s.  Dick

Bob Porter on the CIA
I was at CIA as were a number of ''57s but the community includes NSA, DIA, NRO, and the FBI to mention a few/ unquestionably some of us overlapped. It would be enjoyable to know who's who. If you like to exchange a few war
stories on or off line, make yourself known if you can. Five years ago I wrote some thought down on my CIA experience which I'm including below.

Basic Spying 101 (three pages of good copy but we had to edit)

The CIA was a real educational experience. The class competition was about two hundred applicants for each position.  I thought we were a very good group, but we were not gods.  We were all mere human beings, and no one was seven feet tall.  There were two common characteristics: each one had some specialty, something he had probed at depth in his life, and we  were a very self-confident group.  At the end, I had the choice of whether I would be a covert or overt employee, a "case officer" or an analyst.

There was really "a loss of virginity and  a disillusionment with life" phase that came from parts of the training.  You learned the hard facts of life:  That a witting professional will beat an unwitting amateur almost every time; in fact, it's no contest; that self-aggrandizement dominates all other instincts; and that the human species doesn't have much of a claim to
integrity.  I understood all this in theory before, but I had never confronted how effectively tradecraft could be implemented by even unscrupulous people.  Further, knowing how to play the game empowers people and once one has power, he's fighting human nature not to misuse it.

Finally, the game is relatively easy to learn, if you have a big organization behind you.  It would be easy to become a Howard Hunt or G. Gordon Liddy.  It's frightening, but make no mistake, the game is necessary.
Like guns, information doesn't kill, people do!   Bob

Bill Muldoon comments on families in the Military:
Marine officer Bob Mowbray may have been on Okinawa when a group of junior officers petitioned the commandant, Gen Randolph McCall Pate, to let them bring their wives to Okinawa like the other branches did. Pate's reply made Time Magazine..."If the Marine Corps wanted you to have a wife it would have issued you one!" Of course, the truth in retrospect is obvious. Many of us were often moments away from being called into a fray, and families nearby were excess baggage.  Bill

Charlie White’s Fort Dix Frolics
When I started reading about my classmate’s military experience I never thought I could bring myself to share my Ft. Dix "vacation".  But here goes:  I enlisted in the Army Res. in the 6 month, 5 1/2 yr deal, and arrived at Ft. Dix in Oct. '57. Apparently, it was the smart thing to do, for half the Company was college graduates.  We also had baseball players-Sandy Koufax, Don Drysdale, and a journeyman pitcher named Jim McMahan.  I was drinking beer with them when it was announced that the Brooklyn team would move to LA. DD was ecstatic, but Sandy cried over the prospect of leaving Brooklyn. 

Three weeks into it, I got pneumonia, spent next five weeks in hospital. When I returned to my Company, being the only recruit, they wouldn't recycle me because I was too handy: I was their fireman, keeping about ten coal furnaces going.  Also, I could type.  I next went to another basic company, repeated a bit, but got thru the 5th week basic.  Got sick, this time scarlet fever, came close to dying, four weeks in hospital.  Returned to Company, typed for a few weeks (this company was newer, had electric heat, no fireman’s position).  Went to new company, completed 5th thru7th weeks, got infected toe.  Went to hospital, operated on toe, returned to Company with 3 days left in my 6 m. active duty.  By the way, during one of my hospital stays, Leo McKenna came in with pneumonia.

And I never finished basic training!!! Two years later when I move to Portland, Maine, I joined a Reserve unit that had just been changed from an MP unit to Landing boat unit. Of the 100 plus members, I was the only one who knew Port from Starboard, but I was a typist, so I never even saw any of their boats.  They kicked me out 12 months early because I
refused to re-up for three more years.   Charlie

Gordon Haley Fort Dix Doings:
Charlie White is correct. At least half of the recruits going through basic "training" in the Army in that 1957-58 time frame were recent college grads avoiding the draft or avoiding a longer commitment required as an officer candidate.

I remember a cold rainy night cradling my rifle while crawling through the mud under live machine gun tracer bullet fire on the training course and looking back to see one of my pretty fat and flabby platoon buddies who was a PhD from Harvard wearing milk bottle bottom thick glasses and struggling to keep up. The incongruity of it all made me burst out laughing which was a bad mistake because when I got to the end of the course my sergeant wanted to know what I thought was so *(#@!*#  funny about his training program. Of course I got to crawl back through the course three more times that night until he believed I could seriously appreciate it.    Gordon

Dick van Riper remembers Fort Dix!

Gordy Hally's fond recollections of his days at Dix prompt me to add a few of my own.     I had joined an Army reserve Photo Interpretation Unit in the fall of '57 and went off to Basic Training at Dix in January of '58. Others having the same experience were Skip Kerr and Leo Mc Kenna '56 who were in my same Company and Bob Ramsdell, my senior year roomie at Chi Phi. He, being a cycle ahead of us already knew how to salute. Several weeks into our training, we were hit with a major snow storm, about a foot as I recall, and everyone had to fall out with their entrenching tool to clear the Company Street. There we were hundreds of olive clad troops shoveling snow a spoonful at a time to the man next to him who shoveled it to the man next to him who---well you get the picture. The place to be was obviously in the center of the street. After a productive morning, we were allowed to go back into the stairwells of the barracks, where crushed together in our long underwear, lined field jackets and the heat blasting out of the radiators, I managed to nod off standing straight up. The next thing I knew I had a sergeant in my face chewing me out while trying not to laugh.

Another cold day we were out on the rifle range experiencing what Maggie's Drawers really meant and trying to stay warm by huddling around a gasoline fired field stove. As a Squad Leader, the sergeant put me in charge of the group huddled around our stove with the admonishment, "van Riper, if this stove goes out, don't touch it!!"  Yessss sergeant. He no sooner left than the stove went out and after a few minutes of cooling off I remembered my years of Boy Scout training and took charge. "Stand back men" I said, and proceeded to kneel down and throw a match into the bowels of our stove. KaaaBlaammm! The smoke stack blasted 20 feet into the air while Korean War combat vets dove for cover. By the time I staggered to my feet the sergeant was in my face screaming every 4 letter word in his extensive vocabulary  while simultaneously ripping off my squad leader stripes. When he got through with me, the CO got in his licks while all around us the troops were convulsed with laughter. So what's so funny about a soot covered ex squad leader?  (and there were more stories)   Did the Army change me? I guess you could say that.   Rip

Fred Kumm’s buddies at Dix:
As "luck" would have it one of my Fort Dix basic compatriots was Elvis Presley.  You all may remember how Elvis tried everything he could to avoid the Army.  While he was at Fort Dix his effort to avoid Military Discipline was ballistic.  The drill sergeants had their hand full with this egomaniac.  Steve Lawrence was there at the same time and the contrast of Steve and Elvis was something to see.  Steve had the proper attitude and went with the "flow".  When I saw Elvis again in Europe he had secured the sweetest billet and spent his time "entertaining the troops." This thread is sure bringing back many memories.  Fred Kumm

Alan Dessoff remembers:
It's been fascinating reading and am inspired to join in. I also enjoyed Dick's baseball memories. I was student manager of the baseball team and remember vividly a beauty of a game Dick pitched against Vermont at Burlington. It was a night game, and I think we won 3-0. Also, Ron Judson beat the Marines at Quantico on our '57 spring trip. He struck out the side in the ninth to close out the game. Tony Lupien, the ex-Red Sox first baseman, was our coach. A terrific guy!

Now, the military. Facing the draft after graduate school ended in June 1958, I joined the District of Columbia Army National Guard, and was shipped out to Fort Knox for basic.

Dick talks about winter in New Jersey. Ever spend a summer in Kentucky? On the Fourth of July, an off day when our sergeants disappeared, I discovered the air-conditioned base library and spent the whole day there. One night, coming back from a march, we were greeted with cold lemonade and cookies outside the mess hall. This was the Army? On other days, guys were passing out all around me.

As with Dick, they made me a squad leader. One day, while crawling ahead of "my men" through a thick field, I felt something crawling up me. It was a snake. I immediately jumped up, yelled "Charge," and led "my men" on a wild scramble through the brush. Later, the sergeant overseeing this exercise congratulated me on my "leadership." I never told him about the snake.

I know it could have been a lot worse, and was for so many who served in wartime. I was fortunate to serve in peacetime. It's been 36 years since I walked out of the DC Guard Armory for the last time, but I still hold mostly fond memories of the entire experience.    Alan

And finally from Dan Pollick
Uncle Sam reached out and touched me in 1958.  I left my job at GE, left my new wife at home, and headed out for basic training.  I resisted consistent efforts to sign me up for OCS because I wanted to get out ASAP.  Ended up at the Education Center, HQ Company at the 82nd Airborne at Fort Bragg, teaching high school.  I'll never forget being alone at Thanksgiving during basic training, which was partially offset by a tremendous feast put on by the Army.  Played artful dodger and got out of all but one day of KP by playing regimental football during basic, then getting excused thereafter because I was a teacher.  Fascinating experiences with my non-com classes who had to finish their GED in order to retire in grade. Hated every day of conscription, yet there are plenty of valued memories as well.  There was a teacher shortage in public schools and I was released early to teach high school as a civilian. Turned out it was a "blackboard jungle" high school -- a story in itself, for another time.   Dan


This page was last updated by ATB on March 11, 2001

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